Existing Circuits and Where they Go

We have been trying to figure out all of the existing circuit breakers and their function in the house. One day last winter we went through the box and labeled every dangling wire in the house with the corresponding circuit number in the box. I have since used several of those for temporary light switches and outlets. Some of the circuits connect to the back of the house and were not disconnected.

We can account for at least five live circuits in the back, the radon fan, the fire alarm, the red room, the hallway, and the back room which includes the bathroom and the crawlspace light. We don’t know what a few of the circuits control though, they are currently off and we are not missing their function. The GFCI in the bathroom does not have power and none of the circuit breakers seem to turn it on. There is an outlet in the crawlspace that does not have power and some outlets outside at the old spa heater area that must be on some circuit.

Today I worked on the double switch box in the garage. I was hoping one of the lines there controlled the front lights which would verify the connection to the patio light posts. But I could not find the feed wire in the box, while one wire in that box is unidentified, it does not power the front lights.

Wiring to the garage switch box

Wiring behind the garage switch box

This was already labeled as circuit 13 and we knew it fed the garage light switch, the second switch in the box appears not to control anything, Maybe it was used to control the hall light as you walked into the house. I have an outlet going to the router that I found out is tied to this circuit but was not on the switch, and a black jacketed 4 wire that does not seem to go anywhere that was wired into this circuit and was hot–so I disconnected it. Maybe it provided a three way switch for the outside lights? But I was not able to figure out what wire serves power to the lights. It is a mystery that may require that I climb up into the garage attic and cut through the wall that separates the attic from the house. There is a weird uninsulated space there that is a chase for wiring and the plumbing vent.

In the meantime I removed the lights including one I had just installed. I am going to convert the big garage light to a single bulb from three candelabra bulbs. I may paint it bronze to match the other lights too.

Existing garage light

Existing garage light

Posted in Electrical, House Systems, Maintenance and Repair | Comments Off on Existing Circuits and Where they Go

Rock It

Yeah, had rock delivered today. The cheapest gravel I could buy is road base. It is not nearly as pretty as pea gravel because it is a mix of aggregates from about 3/4″ gravel down to sand particles. Used mainly under concrete and roads, it can hold a lot of weight and works well for patios. Alberto used it under our concrete slab.
I had figured 12 tons for the roughly 25 x 16 front patio @ 6 inches deep. The patio is about 400 square feet. The quarry said a ton of the road base covers 105 square ft. to 2 inches deep. So for 400 square feet six inches deep, I needed 12 times that amount or 12 tons. I had figured the gravel needed for the patio from 200 cubic feet or 200/27=7.4 cubic yards. I found a reference that said a ton of gravel is equal to about 18 cubic feet. So 200/18 is 11.11 tons. Some rock types are 1.3 or 1.4 instead. But road base is about 1.5 tons per cubic yard. I ordered 12 tons just to make sure I had enough.

Rock Delivery

Rock Delivery

My grandson agreed to do a quick pose in front of the truck. He is taking a break from playing tennis with Grandpa. We told him he could take all week to move the gravel for us and we’ll provide the wheelbarrow.
But before we can move the gravel I had to figure out what was wrong with the patio outlets. We had a short in the line and the electricians looked at the buried cable and determined it would be too difficult to find it quickly so they disconnected the outside line and put in a new GFCI outlet that allowed us to use the circuit.
I dug out the buried wire and found it was the correct underground cable for burying under a patio. I visually inspected the wire and found it to be in good shape, although there are large roots that have grown over it in spots.
After I removed the first outlet in the wall–ants were crawling all over it! I disconnected all the wires and made sure they were not touching. I removed the GFCI for the purposes of testing and wired the outside wire to the circuit wire directly. Then I tested the circuit and it was fine. So I moved onto the next outlet, and disconnected it completely while connecting the wires in the first outlet directly. It was fine. So was the third outlet.
The fourth outlet goes underground past the flagstone path and under the deck where the rabbits live. So I thought perhaps a rabbit chewed through an exposed wire. In fact the first outlet on the deck was the cause of the short. So the wire on the patio side is all good. I just disconnected the last wire that goes under the walk and re-buried the rest. Those three outlets are probably enough for the 20 amp circuit anyway, and they are wired to a GFCI outlet in the garage so they meet code! I covered the exposed wires at the right corner post area with a Schedule 80 elbow that I slit up the middle with a cutting wheel on my Dremel tool and poked the wires into it. Then I used some of the Siga Wigluv tape to seal it so that rabbits won’t be able to get to that wire. The other outlets are in parts of the wall that are covered by the stucco and concrete walls. There was a schedule 80 pipe in the wall, it just didn’t extend down to the ground. The inside corner will be covered with the stone and the patio but may be exposed on the outer side so now those wires are protected.

Patio area

Patio area with reburied wires for the lights and three outlets.

Third outlet

Third outlet with broken connecting wire pulled out also pulled out some of the slack in the wire.

The patio area is right outside the front doors in the terraced area. Will be a great living space when it is done.

Patio area from inside

Patio area from inside

Eventually we can wire the last two deck outlets to the new circuit that will be connected to the spa. The 15 amps are used only for the spa lights and the exterior outlet on the house so two more outlets won’t overpower the wiring.
I bought the rock for the patio so that when I rent the tamper I can tamp it as well as the slab rock. The tamper is $80 for the day and I want to have enough rock to tamp to make the cost worthwhile. How one thing leads to another.
For want of a hammer the nail was lost
For want of a nail the shoe was lost
For want of a shoe the horse was lost
For want of a horse the rider was lost
For want of a rider the battle was lost
For losing the battle the kingdom was lost
And all for the want of a hammer. (I think I added the hammer–just the nail part is referenced as an English nursery rhyme–used by Ben Franklin in his Poor Richard’s Almanac.)

Ben Franklin

Ben Franklin

Posted in Electrical, House Systems, Landscape | Comments Off on Rock It

Excavation with a Dingo

I was working too hard to take photos so I found this short video on You Tube that shows basically what I was doing all day. Not using the rotary digger but just the excavator on this Toro walk behind tractor.

This was another rental from Arvada Rentalls because I just got tired of digging out the slab area for the spa by hand. I basically gave up and called the rental place and this hand excavator/loader was available for today. I woke up bright and early to get there by opening at seven to rent the excavator. They rent it with a tilt trailer so I just needed to have a big enough truck with a 2 inch ball hitch.
It took me about 2 hours to get the slab area excavated and then I had to set up the forms. Then I lined the form with 6 mil plastic to help keep the spa warm and used the excavator to pick up and dump the free pea gravel into the bottom. I used almost all of the stone for about a 2″ layer of stone in the form.
I used 2 x 12’s for the form because we had them. Two eight footers and a 12 footer. But I decided to put the edge of the slab back a little bit from the edge of the patio wall so the final slab will be about 11′ 3″ x 8′. I’m thinking I will try to use up the waffle boxes that are left over. There are 10.
I will definitely need more stone and will have to rent a tamper to be sure it is settled under the concrete. I will also call about getting a load of stone for the front patio area. I also excavated that, and cut some of the grassy path back to make the patio a little larger with less grass to maintain. Maybe we will plant along the flagstone path as a border between that and the patio. I put the extra dirt on the bottom of the patio area and used the excavator in reverse with the blade down as a grader.
Although I only used 4.5 machine hours I think I got my money’s worth out of the 8 hour rental, about $212 with the gas. I have to wake up again bright and early to return it by 7:30. I love having a rental place close by. So many expensive toys to bring home to play with. And it helps to get a task done from that infernal list.

Posted in Landscape, Tools | Comments Off on Excavation with a Dingo

Summer List

So did ANYTHING get done this spring? Actually work was done but little was actually FINISHED. And there were things that we did that were not on the official list of next steps.

I’ve written about what I have been doing, and of course Dave has been busy planting a garden and working on the garden wall which I will feature one of these days. He also put together the old shed from our kids’ yard as a playhouse for the grandkids and it is about finished. Plus taking care of the lawn and planting fruit trees.

1.Install outside electric box
2. New windows
3. New doors (will be replumbed and leveled today)
We know what is happening with the doors–just more tasks to add to the Summer list.
4. Insulate remaining openings
Still need to do this…
5. Install battens
6. Install membrane/air barrier
Battens are installed on all the finished membrane but there is more membrane to put up. Right now working on the master bedroom.
7. Polyiso in crawlspace joists–Not yet
8. Plan ventilation system
I have worked on this and found some 10″ insulated flexible duct for a great price at the Restore. Using this larger ductwork should help with the air distribution.
9. Resolve door issues–pending
10. Get insulation inspections–not ready yet!
11. Foam sheathing cracks/tape–not yet–get this done and we can call for the inspection.
12. Drywall exterior walls–not until after inspection
13. Patch concrete (floor) and caulk edges–Not on the near horizon but maybe if I get inspired when I’m cleaning the floor.
14. Clean and polish floor–have to get to this before guests come in late July.
15. Interior walls–pipe dream
16. Pour concrete slab–working on it.
17. Install spa–I wish
18. Excavate spa slab area–tomorrow!

Yes I was out of town for two weeks in May, and yes it has been raining almost non-stop all spring, but only two items crossed off? Starting to feel like we will never make progress. Again starting with something that is already done–seems like I really need to cross off something!
Summer List
1. Rebuild radiant system valves so chiller system will work with thermostats.
2. Install chiller to cool the house enough to work in it on hot days.
3. Rewire thermostats to add both heat and cool to their functionality.
4. Set up outdoor eating area for guests–Install new exterior lights.(OK also did this already but didn’t have it on a list.)
5. Prepare for new rubber tile patio and french door stoop.
6. Think about how to screen french doors.
7. Figure out overhang for exterior doors.
8. Remove siding from front of house.
9. Replace polyiso in exposed areas, wrap and install new siding.
10. Order pieces to rebuild trombe wall.
11. Finish spring list.

Well, fine, more to do. Each day we do something. It is working all day in a way that will complete this huge project that is difficult. But the actual work is still fun. I watched a documentary on building a tiny house and that took a year and over $26,000 to complete so I didn’t feel so badly about our house project.

Posted in Planning | Comments Off on Summer List

Rebuilt Honeywell Zone Valves

The Honeywell zone valves on the radiant system were all part of the original boiler system from 1984, So I purchased rebuild kits to have on hand if the valves didn’t work initially or stopped working. Luckily they all worked when I first set up the new boiler system, but two of the five stopped working last winter. I just got around to rebuilding them, a good task for a hot day.

Rebuild Kits

Rebuild Kits

The great thing about rebuilding is that the plumbing which is all soldered can stay put. But to upgrade from the old style to new style motorized head, the water has to be drained from the manifold so I waited until summer when the heating system was off. The broken valves stayed open on manual–so whenever any other valve opened, these valves also delivered warm water to the zone. That worked fine for the rest of the winter. Now that I want to install a chiller system though I needed to take care of fixing the valves.

Valve Set on Manual

Valve Set on Manual

In order to avoid that situation next winter (I hope) I just rebuilt all of the valves. It was a simple rebuild–even with having to place the new ball plate for each valve. The old valves had the ball closure device built in but when removed, it opens the valve piping. The separate piece now allows the valve head to be replaced without emptying the water from the system.

Old Valve Head

Old Valve Head

The most difficult part of the install was removing the old gaskets, they were very flattened in the groove. I was able to slip a small screwdriver under part of the rubber and use my thumbnail against the screwdriver to grab the old gasket and pull it out.

Valve Conversion Kit

Valve Conversion Kit

Also two of the four bolts are configured to accept the screws from the valve head, and naturally I got two in the wrong place the first time I installed one.

Bolting on the Plate

Bolting on the Plate

The new plates have indents that align with those on the valve to made positioning a no brainer. Thank goodness for that because access to the valves in my system is tight.

Indents to position the plate

Indents to position the plate

The old valve body has matching indents for lining up. Notice the black around the rubber gasket area, from the old gasket deteriorating over time.

Old Valve Body with Indents

Old Valve Body with Indents

The valve body slips right over the plate and with a bit of wiggling sits down correctly over the valve control arm and aligns with the two bolt heads to attach the heads. The valve must be on manual to seat on the arm so be sure they are on that setting. They are set on manual in the package, but might be wise to double check.

After a couple of hours all the valves were rebuilt and labeled. I will have to bleed the system again to get out any air that was introduced and I will check for operation when I get the new chiller.

Newly rebuilt valves

Newly rebuilt valves

The old valves lasted thirty years, the new valves may not last as long. Some of the comments on the Supply House website where I purchased the new heads say the new valves are junk compared to the old. I hope not.

Honeywell Zone Valve Replacement Head Install

Posted in House Systems, Maintenance and Repair, Radiant Heat | Comments Off on Rebuilt Honeywell Zone Valves

What’s the Weather Like Today?

Hum along with me to the old tune, “Its Good News Week” if you know that one you are probably a baby boomer. It is a 60’s one hit wonder by a group called Hedgehoppers Anonymous! Not that I remembered–what did they do before the Internet?
I received this contraption for my birthday from my dear husband. This is a fantastic gift.  I love it. It is an Acurite Five in One Weather Station.

Five in One Weather Station

Five in One Weather Station with Dual Solar Panel Upgrade

I mounted it at the very top of the house. Not too difficult when I can just climb onto the roof from the rear of the house since it is bermed to a step right below the gutter. The device is installed level and mounted due south (according to my GPS) to get accurate wind direction and solar power for the thermometer fan.

Weather Station on House Top

Accurite Weather Station on House Top

This Five in One weather station can use PC Connect software downloaded from the site to transfer data to their website. But I don’t have a PC to connect to the display. I use a Mac Powerbook and I splurged on an iPhone so that I could buy a Flir One thermal imaging camera last Christmas. So I added the Acu-link accessory. It is a wireless bridge that plugs into the internet router and transfers the sensor data to the Acurite My Backyard Weather website. Then I can log in from my computer or phone (or iPad) anywhere there is a data connection to see the weather data from my rooftop.

Aculink Bridge

Aculink Bridge Instructions

The Five in One station measures Temperature, Humidity, Wind Direction and Speed, Rainfall, and there is a Barometric Pressure readout too. The icons on the website are configurable, add or delete options and place them in any order. The inside display is also configurable for some of the information widgets.
My website display setup looks like this:

Aculink Website Display

Aculink Website Display-Temperature gets nice and cool at night

And this is an example of the inside display screen with widgets on the lower half that I have chosen to display. Notice it is pretty hot inside as the weather starts to cool off outside. Opening the windows at night cools it down inside but only to about 73 or 74. We just have so much mass in the house that it takes longer than overnight to cool it down. So the chilling system should really help cool the mass and keep it cooler inside.

Inside Display

Inside Weather Station Display-about an hour earlier that the website display

The window at the bottom of the display is a ticker that tells the moon phase, the last rainfall, the current records for heat and cold etc.

One problem I had when the temperatures started to get hot outside is that the display was about 15-20 degrees higher than the actual temperature. The weather station thermometer is exposed to the hot sun and the way it is kept accurate is to power a small fan with a solar panel. I read on the user forums that the single panel is just not enough for hot summer temperatures and there is an upgrade that has two solar panels that makes the hot sunny day temperature readout more accurate. So of course I had to have one.

Temperature Sensor Add On

Temperature Sensor Add On

It was not too difficult to install, just had to keep track of the screws and not let the internal electronic box fall out of the device. The effect was not immediate, the temperature sensor stayed at 104 degrees when it was probably 90 but the next day the temperature did not skyrocket in the sun and seemed much more accurate. There is some calibration that can be done for the instruments but except for the temperature on sunny days they seem pretty accurate right out of the box.
I’m pretty impressed with this device. It does run on four AA batteries that come it. I will have to see how long a set lasts. In cold weather they recommend lithium batteries to combat the effect of the cold on alkaline batteries. The data collection memory in the inside display is full right now and I don’t have a PC to use the software to download it. I wonder if it would just show up as a USB disk on my Mac to download and empty the memory. (Didn’t work–did open iTunes though!)
The total cost was more expensive than purchasing the kit with the acculink bridge and temperature sensor upgrade included so look at the website and get that one in the first place (Currently: Acurite Model: 900WES) to get the full capability of the system.

Posted in Tools | Comments Off on What’s the Weather Like Today?

The Rain was Raining All Around

It falls on field and tree. It rains on my umbrella here and on the ships at sea.

A Child’s Garden of Verses–Robert Louis Stevenson

I always liked these little verses as a child and memorized several of them. They are comforting to me when I think of them, little rafts in an uncertain river of time.

Almost 3 inches of rain

Almost 3 inches of rain

Mother's Day Snow

Mother’s Day Snow

The spring weather in Arvada was wetter than normal. Most of the plains states got more rain than usual, in fact most of the country did except for drought-ridden California. They are suffering from a several year reduction in normal rainfall. Similar to the early 70’s when we lived there but they say it is worse–well more people using the water now and more fields being planted to feed us.

I thought Colorado had a state-wide average for rainfall, but I was wrong. In Arvada, just 30 minutes from Denver we have 19 instead of 14 annual inches of precipitation and another 30 minutes further north in Boulder the annual precipitation is 24 inches. That seems like quite a difference.

Here are the Arvada averages for precipitation.

Average Days with Rain in Arvada
The number of days of rain or snow averages about 6 for the month of May. In 2015 we have had 20.
Average Monthly Precipitation Arvada
The average number of inches of precipitation in May is less than 3. We had nearly 7.

This map shows the total precipitation in Colorado for May 2015. The location of Arvada is marked. It is a little North West of the center of the state.

Colorado May Rainfall Totals 2015

Colorado May Rainfall Totals 2015

The Community Collaborative Rain Snow and Hail Community keeps detailed records in several states and have a goal of collecting data for each square mile. Volunteers purchase official rain gauges and hail recording devices and send their data to the website. Automatic collection is not allowed. Our closest station is about a half mile away and the data shows 6.95 inches of rain in May, plus 10 days over .10 inches and 20 with measurable amounts. Two other close stations reported 7.85 and 6.35 inches respectively. June has been rainy too with 3.58 inches through June 21st and 3.46 for the second reporting station with 9 rainy days over .10 inch and 13 days with measurable precipitation.

Denver numbers were similar. Denver Airport only had 3.72 inches of rain in May with 19 rainy days. The National Weather Service Weather Forecast Office published these figures for Denver in May.
WEATHER CONDITIONS. NUMBER OF DAYS WITH
THUNDERSTORM 0
MIXED PRECIP 0
RAIN 9
FREEZING RAIN 0
HAIL 0
SNOW 1
SLEET 0
FOG W/VIS <= 1/4 MILE 7
HEAVY RAIN 2
LIGHT RAIN 23
LT FREEZING RAIN 0
HEAVY SNOW 1
LIGHT SNOW 2
FOG 14
HAZE 3

Denver’s rain amount did not even make the top ten.
TEN WETTEST MAY`S IN DENVER WEATHER HISTORY SINCE 1872:
8.57 INCHES 1876
7.31 INCHES 1957
6.12 INCHES 1969
5.06 INCHES 1973
4.95 INCHES 1935
4.88 INCHES 1938
4.88 INCHES 1898
4.79 INCHES 2011
4.77 INCHES 1967
4.67 INCHES 1995

But it was significantly higher than the driest years.
10 DRIEST MAY`S IN DENVER WEATHER HISTORY SINCE 1872:
0.06 INCHES 1974
0.09 INCHES 1886
0.15 INCHES 1899
0.22 INCHES 1919
0.34 INCHES 1977
0.34 INCHES 1966
0.43 INCHES 1925
0.49 INCHES 1972
0.52 INCHES 1911
0.53 INCHES 1900

Bottom Line? We have not been able to dig out the space for the cement slab to place the spa. The rain has just let up this week and we are getting to it now.

Posted in Construction, Landscape, Planning | Comments Off on The Rain was Raining All Around

Door Doldrums

The Therma Tru doors from Alpen are a remodeler’s nightmare. After the initial install, they didn’t work very well at all. They didn’t close correctly apparently due to being out of level and not plumb.

First Door Installers

First Door Installers

SOO the installers, the door assemblers, the window company rep and the sales rep got together to look at them and take pictures and say the installers needed to return and move the doors enough to be perfectly level and plumb. At first they said I should take out the doors and level the concrete sill first, but after I thought about that I decided that was crazy and that we could use shims, preferably fiberglass shims to make them level and then just foam any cracks. So the installers returned to level the doors but that took about a month for them to get another space in their schedule.

Front Door View

Front Door View

I also had them reframe the back door as it was framed in a crooked wall so that the door left over an inch of space between the sheathing and the brickmold which would have been almost impossible to seal and frame again. So that was done and I left town to visit my Mom for her birthday so we were again on hold for a couple of weeks.

I had several concerns about the door quality–for instance the bolt that holds the lockset is oversized and scrapes the strike plate.

Scraped strike plate

Scraped strike plate

Oversize door bolt

Apparent warp in door

We also had gaps in the insulation and one door came without insulation and one lockset was the wrong type. So there were several things to address. But Alpen doesn’t do warranty work until the bill is paid in full. Nice for them to have the negotiating all on their side.

The company rep was supposed to return to fix paint issues with the doors, one surface was rough and when that door seemed to be warped by about 1/8″ they suggested that first the installers come out again and re-level it–less than 1/8″ in 6′. So they did and I finally paid them the last of what I owed them as I didn’t really think it was an installation issue any more.

During this time we had an unusual amount of rainfall for Colorado. Something like 5 inches. I have to look up the exact amount but that is a lot of rain for here. So the re-painting was delayed and so was the re-level but eventually the installers stopped by to  re-level the warped door, but they could not get it to lock. Instead of Alpen returning to re- paint they convened another meeting.

Peeling paint on jamb

Peeling paint on jamb

Peeling paint on upper brickmold

Peeling paint on upper brickmold

Peeling paint on lower brickmold

Peeling paint on lower brickmold

This time the company rep had a more senior rep with him but the door assembler was not involved. They looked at the paint and it was obvious that the situation was much worse. The installers had mentioned that Alpen thought that perhaps the paint issues were caused by the install–perhaps banging on the doors incorrectly and chipping the paint. There is some evidence that paint is chipping where the installers may have tapped on the doors to align them, but there is other chipping that is at the bottom of the jambs and at the edges of the brickmold that are less likely to be installer caused. So overall, it seems to be an Alpen warranty issue.

But here comes the worst part. ThermaTru excludes the wood parts of their doors (pine or oak jambs, sills, brickmold) completely from their warranty and Alpen had a clause in their sales document that said that the doors have to be protected by an overhang for half of their width. WHAT? I had neglected to see this stipulation on the door order until AFTER I sent in the final order so I am out of luck there.

Alpen Door Warranty Exclusion

Alpen Door Warranty Exclusion

I was annoyed with the sales rep who told me the warranty was an issue for outswing doors. Apparently it is an issue for ANY of Alpen’s Therma Tru doors. The sales rep never mentioned this stipulation when I was deciding on doors and he knew I had no plans to cover the solar gain doors by a huge overhang. Why would I spend extra money to have Alpen sell me the doors with their special solar glass if I couldn’t use them for solar gain when they shade most of the fall and spring sun?

So I knew this clause was going to be a problem. They thought perhaps the wall needed to be sealed before the doors are re-painted and that means tearing off the rest of the siding and replacing some of the aging polyiso sheathing and using SIGA housewrap which the sales rep offered to me without charge I believe, and more of the tape and then re-siding and caulking the doors so moisture is not getting behind the brickmold. That seems reasonable and it has to be done anyway.

I also have to figure out how to install my solar shades which are still in the design stage and hope they will count as “overhang”. I asked the installers to send me another estimate to seal the front as I thought they would get to it before I would, but it has been a week and no estimate. I know they are busy with a big job in Golden though.

Delivery of the windows and doors was almost three months ago. So although I didn’t think we needed to prioritize the door issues I now think it will be another several months before they are finished and they will always suffer from exposure and for that they don’t have any warranty. They are WOOD moldings that should stand up just fine to weather if protected by paint and the fiberglass doors are supposed to be more durable than wood. They were not cheap doors; aren’t most exterior doors exposed to weather? I have to just chalk this up to a bad experience as I settled for these doors in the first place, knowing I wanted outswing french in the front room and in the master and got inswing and a single door instead. Now I really regret getting doors from a window company. It is just not their specialty.

It is disappointing, but to look at the overall picture–all is not lost. These doors should function very well, keeping the cold and heat out with their high R value and the low U value glass. They are really more energy efficient than any other door choice (except for outswings which have a lower air transmittance due to shutting against the wind) and were less expensive than some of the foreign brands that are available. I just have to look on the bright side.

Therma Tru Warranty

Alpen-HPP_Residential_Warranty-8-2014

Posted in Air Intrusion/Thermal Envelope, Maintenance and Repair | Comments Off on Door Doldrums

Switcharoo to Penguin Chiller

Penguin Chiller Logo

Penguin Chiller Logo

I was very disappointed about the new/old Arctica Chiller not working, although ebay is fantastic in providing free return shipping. I let it drain for a day and packed it up in the original box and plastic bag making sure that the styrofoam pieces protected it all around. Then I carried it out to the car and hurt my back twisting it into the back seat. I should have put it in the trunk. The store owner was apologetic and of course was also disappointed that now they have a returned chiller that does not work. She thought perhaps it was the shipping that did something to it, but I suspect it was repaired at some point and the new seal in the copper may have leaked. It is hard to say–the fins were clean and the water in the pipes seemed to be flowing just fine.

I also packed up the controller in its original box and followed the return instructions so I hope to get refunds for both of these items in a few days.

I ALMOST bought a 1/4 HP Ecoplus chiller because there was a 15% off coupon on Amazon. I was not sure that chiller would be large enough and I wanted to see if I could find one with the more efficient R410A refrigerant. After MUCH more searching on the internet I came across Penguin Chillers.

I am so impressed with the specifications and the list price that I ordered one immediately, even though there is little other information on aquarium forums etc.  Not only are these made in the USA (Arctica are made in Korea) but they have R410a which is even better than R134A because it is a more efficient refrigerant that must work at higher pressures that means the design is better than most chillers. The commercial Arctica used R-22 which is being phased out as an HCFC refrigerant so R410A is better for LEED compliance too. This chiller has less than 1/2 pound of refrigerant and is sealed so it is also exempt from LEED required refrigerant pressure testing. It operates at a lower gph, the flow must be at least 300 gph, while the Arctica required 480gph. That translates into a 5 gpm capable pump for my system which will use less electricity than the higher speed.

1/2 HP Penguin Chiller

1/2 HP Penguin Chiller

It is rated at 4.5 amps instead of 5 like the Arctica and at 5000 btu’s instead of 6000. But it should operate more efficiently and the noise level is published–most don’t publish the level and you have to rely on anecdotes to determine noise levels. The noise level is rated at 56 decibels which is about twice as loud as the humming of a refrigerator or the quietest dishwashers, but about a third less than normal conversation, rated at 60. Like the Richter scale for earthquakes, Decibel ratings are on a logarithmic scale so 60 is twice as loud as 50.

Currently these chillers are so popular that there is a 5-7 day shipping wait time. So even though I have not found many comments other than Penguin Chiller reviews on Amazon, they are selling quickly. Amazon has a seller listed and they are available on ebay but the best price was on the website. Don’t forget to add the controller–they should offer the controller as standard and a discount if it is taken off, but their web software may not work that way.

Eric at Penguin Chillers was kind enough to send me the user manuals as pdf’s so that I can post them here. I also copied the specifications from the website as another pdf.

Penguin Chiller Specifications
Penguin Chiller Setup
Penguin Controller Setup

I’m looking forward to installing the new chiller, although the summer temperatures here have remained lower than average with more rain than average. Which is delaying our concrete slab work for the spa. Rats!

Posted in Appliances, House Systems, Planning, Radiant Cooling | Comments Off on Switcharoo to Penguin Chiller

Radiant Cooling

It was easier than I thought it would be to switch the thermostats to cooling and hook up the circulation pump as the primary pump on the system. I just had to switch the white wire from heat to cool. Eventually I will re-wire the thermostats with 4 strand wire.

Thermostat Wiring

Thermostat Wiring

The pump had to be rewired to turn on when the thermostats called for cooling to circulate the water that is cooling by moving through the heat exchanger and becoming lower in temperature from the chilled water in the storage tank.

This is the original wiring diagram that was redone for this system.

Original wiring diagram

Original wiring diagram

The actual boiler setup using the Fireplace Boiler as a secondary heat source is not yet wired or figured out. The storage tank circulation pump is just running all the time–as an energy efficient EMC pump that is not a huge efficiency drain. With the heat cycle that pump would only turn on when the water is hot enough and only on a call for heat. I’m still trying to follow the logic to allow the primary pump and boiler to come on after the heat from the storage tank is used up.

Radiant cooling has been running for about an hour now. The chiller has still not come back on as the storage tank water has only given up about 5 degrees. The temps in the house will take more time to come down since radiant cooling is cooling of the surrounding surfaces not the air itself. At least the temperature in the house has not gone up as the outside temperature approaches a high of 84 today. Currently it is 81 outside and 75 inside with all the windows closed. I’m hoping to keep the house cool to get more work done this summer!

Update: The temperatures in the house did begin to go up and wound up at about 78 degrees. After a full day of running off and on for a few minutes each time, with the sensor telling me that the chiller was working, I began to suspect that it was not. Overnight I realized I had a new sensor that came with the controller–so I plugged that one in first think in the morning and taped it to the delivery pipe where the water should be the coldest. The temperature measured 75 and continued to measure about 75 for the next two hours as the chiller ran. Oh oh. I felt behind the chiller and NO warm air was coming out. DARN there goes my good deal. I’m glad I installed it as soon as I got it so that I could test the system. I have filed a return request and will also return the controller.

I took a couple of thermal images to see if the floor was getting cooler and I got a solid photo! This basically shows that the floor had NO cooler water running through the pipes as it is all one solid color, with only my toes for contrast.

Radiant Floor

Radiant Floor with Toes

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Heat Exchanger Piping

I finished the heat exchange piping this morning. This is how the heat exchanger works. Notice the hot in the upper corner going IN and the warm after exchanging its heat going OUT in the lower corner. Conversely the cold is going IN at the lower corner of the other side and the warm is going OUT. In other words the temp exchange is piped opposite of one another.

Brazed plate heat exchanger

Brazed plate heat exchanger

This is my piping before I hooked up the chiller.

Heat Exchanger Piping

Heat Exchanger Piping

On the left upper side hot is being pumped into the heat exchanger and so it will be leaving its heat in the exchanger and returning to the storage tank much cooler on the right hand side. Conversely, the cool water from the radiant pipes is entering on the right lower side, it will heat up and is being pumped back into the radiant system on the lower left–to the boiler in this case.

Cooling works in a similar fashion. The chilled water leaves the upper outlet on the chiller and enters the upper left corner of the heat exchanger. But it also flows to the input of the chiller at the tee just before the exchanger. This is where the system can be turned off for the winter. Then it gives up its chill to the water in the radiant system and leaves at the upper right corner of the system and back to both the output of the chiller and the input of the tank. The radiant system water enters again at the lower right side of the heat exchanger and leaves to chill the floors at the lower left. Either the cooling or the fireplace heater can be closed off from the heat exchanger system with ball valves depending on the season.

Finished Piping

Finished Piping

I switched the wiring on the pump outlet to allow the pump to run continuously and plugged in the chiller controller with the temperature sensor and power connected from the chiller. With the pump running and the water running through just the top of the heat exchanger the chiller compressor kicked on and ran for about 10 minutes as the temperature on the controller dropped from 64.9 to 55.5. For some reason the controller continued to drop the temperature reading until it reached about 44.2! Then it started to go back up. I ended up unplugging it when we left the house for a few hours. But at least I know it works. (Rather I was tricked into thinking it was working–but it was not cooling the water as much as the internal sensor indicated at least that is what the new external sensor showed.)

Chiller water temp at shut off

Chiller water temp at shut off

Chiller temp continues to go down

Chiller temp continues to go down

The trick will be to get the valves to open and the circulation pump to start on a call for cooling instead of a call for heat. (Not a problem with the correct re-wire of the thermostats.) That should involve the valve from the heat exchanger to the radiant system which I may just leave open, and the valves to the floor piping which need to have the thermostats rewired for the cooling function. Plus changing the pump wiring around again and hoping it all works.

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Killer Chiller (DOA)

For the past couple of years I have installed a window evaporative cooler that I bought on craigslist in one of the front windows. This year, however, that window has been replaced and there is not a new window that would fit the cooler. SO I had considered several other ways of cooling the house for the summer.

Installing a whole house evaporative cooler is one idea that was appealing but that would require ducting that is not the same as the ducting for the ventilation system. Evaporative cooling also wastes water–at least it has for the last couple of years as the tank dumps itself out every 8 hours. I also thought about running a mini-split air conditioner outside. These are heat pump air conditioners that run the cold fluid through copper pipes into air exchangers hung on the inside walls. They are 220 volt and would require more electrical outlets outside. I thought I might eliminate the air exchange unit and run the cooling fluid through a heat exchanger to cool the water in our radiant system instead but then I started reading about chillers.

Radiant cooling was recommended by some friends of ours who know of a house that has it and say it works really well. I guess we are about to find out because after lots of research on aquarium chillers, I found a good sized one on ebay and bought it. The unit was advertised as new and is the Arctica Commercial 115 volt 1/2 HP unit–model 500B. The unit did not have a controller included so I ordered one from Marine and Reef supply and was surprised when it shipped from Tempe, Arizona, our former hometown.

Arctica Chiller and Controller

Arctica Chiller and Controller

The list price for this chiller is about $1700, although I found a price as low as $1159 at Marine Depot. The unit I put together was less than half of the lowest price I found online. Which may make up for the messed up label. (But does not make up for not chilling as I find out later.)

R-22 refrigerant is a problem for LEED as there is a complicated formula that determines whether the amount of refrigerant used is a detriment to the environment. Energy efficiency can be a trade-off between the use of HCFC’s, electricity, or water. Since heat pumps also use R-22 and are beneficial as energy saving heat and cooling appliances, this chiller that only uses 5 amps when operating should balance the use of an HCFC. A typcial 1 ton air conditioner would use 10 amps at 220 volts or 20 at 115. So this unit uses about half of what a 1/2 ton air conditioner would use. Our Manual J calculations actually called for 3 tons of cooling, but I had not controlled for awnings on the solar exposed windows.

I wrote the company and the unit is sealed with 1 lb. 4.5 oz. of refrigerant. So like a sealed heat pump, it should not need to be pressure tested for LEED certification.

Chiller Label

Chiller Label–somewhat obliterated

This chiller is capable of cooling 150 gallons, more water than I have in the system with the 50 gallons of water in the old water heater, but the tank will lose cooling strength going through the exchanger so it will probably need the extra capability.

Chiler Front

Chiller Front

It is rated at 6000 BTU’s which is “half ton” in air conditioners. The pump speed needs to be between 474 and 792 GPH which translates to about 8 to 13 GPM.

Chiller Model DA-500B

Chiller Model Arctica Commercial DA-500B

The controller temperature on this commercial unit can be set much cooler than regular aquarium chillers down to 32 degrees.

Arctica 1/2 HP Controller

Arctica 1/2 HP Controller

I plan to tie this chiller into the storage tank for the fireplace boiler and run the chilled water through the same heat exchanger. The thermostats will work on cooling mode and they should send the same signal to the valves to open and start the circulating pump on a call for cooling.

I’ll use the same pump that is installed on top of the water tank to circulate the water through the chiller and the exchanger. Although I still have more work to do on the design. I hope I can get it set up before the weather gets really hot. It has been pretty cool so far this spring with a LOT of rain.

Arctica Commercial Specs

Arctica Commercial Chiller Manual

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Novan Solar Hot Water System

I have been searching on craigslist for a hot water solar system for some time.  A month or so ago, I went to look at one that was $800 for three panels, a control system and tank that all needed to be removed and another buyer arrived just as I was leaving so I passed on it. My original thought was to add collectors to the boiler system but after I bought the spa, it seemed like that would be a good application to counteract the cost of keeping the spa water warm.
The system was all the way on the south side of Denver but the owner said make an offer–so I did. For $200 and the disassembly, I bought two Novan solar collectors that have damaged in and out connections because of stupid roofers, a heat exchanger “optimizer” and a storage tank.

System on Truck

System on Truck

These are the photos on the craigslist ad. There are two collectors.

Novan Collectors

Novan Collectors

The heat exchanger is copper mounted to a board with two pumps that probably don’t work anymore, a differential controller, and various plumbing drains and connections.

Novan Optimizer

Novan Optimizer

The tank has a tag that says it is electric, but there is no electrical connection so it appears that it was just a storage tank. It is a 66 gallon 1981 Conservationist, a line still made by A.O. Smith.

Novan System Tank

Novan System Tank

I was able to find some information about the Novan systems which were manufactured in Boulder, Colorado until about 1985 when the tax incentives of the time dried up. They were exceptionally well built collectors and the system used Bray oil a currently unavailable thermal transfer fluid that was only used in the Novan systems. The owner captured some of the Bray oil but it will surprising if enough was captured to refill the system so we will have to flush the panels and the collectors and use a glycol mixture.

Novan Information

Novan Information

Novan Solar Collector Manual

C-30-1S Solar Controller

The collectors will need to be rebuilt due to the smashed connecting pipes. But the collector is put together with screws and bolts so it should not be too difficult to dissasemble and reconnect pipe to the interior collector. I’m excited about the system and the information I found regarding these high quality components. Novan is one of the most sought after brands for hot water solar panel restoration.

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Reused Outdoor Lights

These were the original lights at the doors. They may have been homemade as they were cedar like the siding with white plastic covers. They were much the worse for wear, with the wood cracking and breaking and the lights filled with old wasp nests and dead moths.

Old porch light

Old porch light

I found a set of two of these lights on craigslist for $60 which was a little more than I wanted to pay but I was the first responder to the ad and I wanted them at $30 each it was reasonable if not cheap. They are light sensitive and have the on at dusk off at dawn feature.

New porch light

New porch light

I was lucky to find a third light on clearance at Home Depot for about $50. These lights were normally $99. Not only is it a perfect match, it has the instructions for setting the movement time on and the on at dusk feature.
Each light is near a door. This is the now bedroom door under the overhang.

New light

New light

This is the light next to the front door.

New light at front door

New light at front door

The existing light at the garage is an iron color instead of bronze, but it was the inspiration for the new “coach” lights.

Existing garage light

Existing garage light

A small job but one that improves the appearance of the house. Too bad they stuccoed around the original fixtures.

Heath_Zenith Outdoor Carriage Light_user manual

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Tarnished Energy Gems

It appears that SERI had a good deal of influence in the 80’s in the Denver area. I say this because I purchased a solar hot water system from a couple in Centennial who bought a foreclosure that has a huge trombe wall and three huge bins of rock storage in the basement! I was SOOO impressed. Unfortunately he said the system has been abandoned for years and even some of the vents were tiled over etc. They tried the fans which still work but they blasted dust into the air.

This was the rock storage bin idea.

Rock Bin Heat Storage

Rock Bin Heat Storage

I was so excited, told him it was essentially free heat forever if they could just resurrect the system. So much expense into developing it and just sitting there doing nothing. The lower vents were blocked off with styrofoam panels. There were three stories of aluminum sliding glass doors in front of a concrete block wall. The brick for the inside wall was solid and all soldier course. The house was huge–2220 sq. ft on the first floor alone, then an upper story and the walk out basement rooms. At one time all heated with solar.

There is so much ignorance about these systems that it is sad–maybe tragic. The former owners who blocked off a system that would have given them free heat, the roofers who cut the solar panels and crushed the pipes going into the panels so that they will have to be disassembled to be fixed, the lack of contractors who would know how to return the house to its former glory, so they have a great house despite its solar “quirks” instead of because of them.

I wish I had taken some photos. The front of the house was indistinguishable from its neighbors, the back was gorgeous at three solar stories high with a sunroom on one side and a trombe wall on the other and it looked out on a lovely little green space before the next neighborhood. I wish they could renovate the system, but the expense would probably be beyond them as a younger couple with two little kids.

Current theory is that rock storage did not “work” as well as superinsulation does–just keeping the heat in the house is better. But if you HAVE rock storage, it depends on what you want to get out of it to determine its worth. Like a heat pump, it will only use the ambient temp of the rocks to pre-heat the house–likely it won’t actually heat the house adequately during the coldest weather due to the inefficiencies of air to rock heat transfer. Also there would be the thermal swing–if you actually store lots of heat–how long would it take to cool off when the temps get warmer? Yet my research shows this type of system is still being researched and in some cases installed–especially outside the US.

I thought it was so neat and if it were not so far away I would love to explore the system and see what the issues are. But I have my own systems to attend to, including a new hot water solar system that I purchased from these folks that needs to be restored.

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Air Barrier Membrane Install

It seemed that it took getting the new doors and windows installed before the time was right to finally install the membrane. I made the decision to use the vapor permeable air barrier from Siga in October of 2013. We have had the membrane and tapes for over a year. Here they were sitting quietly in the corner waiting for me to finally start the job.

Siga Majpel Membrane

Siga Majpell Membrane

The first step is hanging the double sided tape over the rafters. These work on wood or metal and about any surface–here on the polyiso layer.

Siga Twinet Tape on Ceiling

Siga Twinet Tape on Ceiling

The second step is to cut the membrane to length, with enough to overlap the next piece. Since we have the top plate of the bathroom hanging wall left on this ceiling, we cut enough to cover the room lengthwise.
The application was difficult as the heavy piece of membrane was too much for the Twinet double sided tape. I ended up stapling the membrane at the top and finally got it to stick to the tape but the first piece ended up a little uneven.

First Application Uneven

First Application Uneven in Spots

The cover on the tape is pulled down as the membrane is installed. Here the first layer is done and the tape is hanging ready for the second row.

Ready for Second Row

Ready for Second Row

The overlapped edges are taped with the Sicrall tape here. Siga no longer makes this paper backed tape, they replaced it with a vinyl tape. But this tape holds quite well and with its paper backing is easy to install. The caulking at the edges complete the air barrier. I’m using the Siga Primur caulk that works on stucco but I also used it at the wood edges for the first room. The caulk looks like it has some silicone in it as it dries half clear/half white, but it stays tacky a long time. It probably stays rubbery to maintain a seal even if the substrates have some movement.

Installed taped and caulked edges

Installed taped and caulked edges

We started the job trying to use just one layer of scaffolding with a ladder on top. But the ceiling was still too high and partially was the reason the first piece was so difficult to maneuver. So for the caulking job and for the kitchen membrane, I added the second set of scaffolding and it allows for much easier contact with the highest part of the cathedral ceiling.

Double Decker Scaffolding

Double Decker Scaffolding

Unfortunately when rearranging the bottom set of scaffolding, I was having a problem lowering the platform. In the past I had easily dropped it a hole or two at a time but this time it was not working. It wasn’t until I tried to lower it from the side that the platform completely dropped off and landed on my left foot that I realized the problem was the platform was NOT bolted on. So the whole scaffolding had been a bit more rickety than I remembered and that little difference made for a very sore foot. Luckily I didn’t break any toes. When I reassembled it I found the bolts and USED them. Then I had to take it apart again to move it to the kitchen to install that ceiling membrane.

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Leaks!

Oh no, more leaks. We had literally weeks of rain in our normally dry climate. Our rain gauge registered almost 3 inches more than once. On one particularly stormy day last week we began to see water penetration.

Rain Gauge at 3"

Rain Gauge at 2.5″

We heard water splashing on the metal chimney. It was leaking in more than one spot. So the chimney will need to be recaulked–hope the flashing is still OK

Chimney Leak

Chimney Leak

Water was also squeezing between the two rafters and dripping down on the radon pipe and down to the floor.

Leak at roof corner

Leak at roof corner

This was a slower leak and my guess is that it is coming from the corner where two roofs meet.

Drips from roof corner leak

Drips from roof corner leak

The roofing is curved up in this spot and attached to the outer wall and at the corner it is a pretty messy caulk job where the old window was too close to the corner. We replaced the window with a smaller version and obviously need to redo the corner where the roofing meets the siding here. Something else to add to the list!

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Remedies for Door Difficulties

Efficiency Matters returned to relevel and replumb the doors–and they fixed most of the biggest issues with the doors opening and closing which was a huge relief. They also reinstalled the back door into 2 x 6’s instead of the existing crooked 2 x 4’s.
Then Mark Attard from AE Building Systems returned to view the issues still outstanding. Most of them will eventually be resolved by the Alpen tech representative.
Here is what we looked at. Paint is peeling both from where the door may have been struck and inside the jambs where it appears to just be a poor paint job.

Peeling paint

Peeling paint

Not only is the paint cracking but the front door paint is rough like the spray gun had junk in it or the door wasn’t completely clean and the back door trim shows white through the paint. As soon as the weather gets better the Alpen tech will return to repaint these areas.

Paint cracking

Paint cracking

It appeared that the front door was warped, but when Mark checked it, there was much less warping evident and he believes the top being out of alignment is still an installation issue so I contacted Efficiency Matters about the issue again.

Warped door?

Warped door?

One of the handlesets has the wrong faceplate but worse the screws for the handlesets are just painted black so using a screwdriver on them chips off the paint. The Alpen rep is ordering two more–that will replace some of the nicked handles as well.

Mismatched handleset

Mismatched handleset

One of the bolt heads in the lock area is too large for the countersunk metal so I’m hoping they will send new bolts or have the tech bring a countersink to make room for the larger bolthead.

Bolt head too large

Bolt head too large

Finally, I thought this was just poor workmanship on the hinge routing, but Mark assured me several door companies now rout the slabs to hang either way in the jambs. Great, I wonder when they started this shortcut? Yuck. There are also a few crooked screws in the hinges and lock plates. Have to wonder who puts things together these days! Apparently the slabs are installed in the jambs by local trim companies, in this case Trimco. I actually think some of the issues are the result of the trim companies failures instead of the installers but I can’t really prove that. And the doors are working much better now.

Door routing

Door routing

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Skid Steer Skills

I rented a skid steer for the day from Arvada Rentalls. I decided moving concrete by hand was too slow and I wanted to scrape the grass off the slab area too. The machine required a large trailer to bring it home and the delivery cost was the same as the trailer rental so I had it delivered and picked up. When it was delivered the man asked if I was getting help in the form of an operator and I said no I would do it. He seemed alarmed, so I quickly said my husband would help. I don’t know why I said that! He seemed mollified though. Dave did help but not by driving the skid steer. He helped me figure out how to put on the bucket and tried to get it off too but we couldn’t.

In the driver's seat

In the driver’s seat

Unfortunately it turned out to be a partially rainy day when I was expecting sunshine admittedly after several days of rain during the week. The forecast changed and it continued to rain for another week with some downpours. But I had to use it on the day it arrived and I was allotted 8 hours of engine time and 24 hours of time on location.

Scooping concrete

Scooping concrete

The main job for the machine was moving as much of the broken concrete as I could in the time allotted. That meant learning how to scoop the heavy concrete. Although I read about how to operate a skid steer and how long it might take, learning was trial and error. The hand controls for steering were pretty easy to learn–I thought they were easier than a steering wheel. The controls for working the bucket were counter intuitive. They were foot pedals, with left controlling the lift arms and right controlling the bucket. Toe forward was down and heel back was up for the arms, but toe forward was up for the bucket and heel back was dump. So my feet had to be opposite to either lift the bucket into place or return it to the travel position. I kept getting it backwards and had to look at the bucket to see what it was doing. Needless to say my knees got a workout.
I came inside to rest during the first shower but I was in the machine when it rained again and just kept on working. It didn’t seem to matter since I was enclosed and the ground was already wet. When supper time came I still had another hour and a half to work with the machine so again I just kept on going and missed supper with the grandkids, but Dave brought me some dinner that I enjoyed later. Because of the rain I had to approach the concrete pile from different directions making new ruts each time and then moving on to a different area. Once the ruts got so deep, I was getting stuck and there were a couple of times I had to rock the skid steer to get out of the mud. Still I got at least half of the concrete moved to the rear of the garden. And as a bonus I pulled out two dying evergreens, a huge juniper at the road and a large dead spreading evergreen near the front.

Slab area in the mud

Slab area for the spa–in the mud

I had to stop for a bit to go pick up the second load of rubber tile. We kept that on the pallet instead of unloading it to put it on the truck. I rented a forklift attachment hoping to get the tiles off all at one time. But I couldn’t get the bucket off to put the forklift back on. It came with the fork lift attached and we did use it to get a heavy pump mount out of the back of the truck. The pump mount will go in the concrete slab to reduce pump noise but it weighs 600 lbs so not easy to move!

The next morning, the man who picked up the machine said the bucket was stuck from the mud caked on the bottom. He put the forklift back on to pick up the bucket and drive it onto the trailer. I asked him if he could try to move the pallet from the truck first, and he obliged but it turned out that the pallet was so heavy it was tipping the skid steer so he said he couldn’t do it and I ended up unpacking the the tile by hand. So off he went taking the skid steer to its next rental.

Goodbye Skid Steer

Goodbye Skid Steer

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Two Loads of Rubber Tile

I will add another project to the list. Build the front patio with these rubber tiles.

These are recycled rubber tiles that I found in a craigslist ad. The guy had two pallets and wanted to sell them all at once. There are about 1200 tiles. I’m excited about this great find.

The seller has a business about 15 miles from here and his guys loaded them onto our truck. I unloaded them and will go back tomorrow for the second pallet. I’m hoping they will be able to load the pallet all at once tomorrow after I empty the truck of another purchase for the spa installation.

First load of tiles

First load of rubber tiles

This is what one tile looks like. They are about 12″ x 12″ and are a bargain way to fill in our front patio.

Hexagonal Rubber Tire

Hexagonal Rubber Tire

The bonus is that these are environmentally friendly by using up old tires in a recycled product. Plus these were quite inexpensive. I found very similar tiles on sale from a California company for $2.85 a tile. The seller said he imported them himself for $2.00 a tile, he sold them to me for about $.30 a tile.
I am wondering if they could be installed on the flat roof–if I have enough. They would add about 2 lbs per square foot but should be sturdy and if glued down and caulked could protect the heat applied membrane roof. I would like to sit up there for fireworks this 4th of July!

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